I know your lying because your lips are moving

The blog title has no connection with the blog what so ever but while you were sleeping has gotten old so you get what you get:)

Lisa Mason finished 4th in the AA at the English Championships. This is her floor routine. Not bad for an old lady. Full in, triple twist, ACTUAL choreography. I doubt the start value was high based on the score but I enjoyed the music and routine.

Marian Dragulescu is back in the drug pool. This is way more exciting that Ponor coming back.

Shannon Miller is pedaling a book. The interview is interesting. Shannon tells you about her rival and what role the TV played in it and of course talks about her kids and the book. I do find it hilarious that the radio guy can tell the difference between today’s gymnastics and what we had back in the day. Very observant. She also talks about Bela.

Ashley Wagner wants to take over the world.lol Awww isn’t she endearing 🙂

Rewriting Russian gymnastics has an article transcribed originally from prosport.

What do you think of the article? The comments section is getting heated. For me personally no Simone is not artistic but she is very good at presenting herself especially on floor and while her form isn’t perfect ( toe point need improvement and slight leg form sometimes) she is light years ahead of any power gymnast we’ve ever had represent the sport (for the US) except maybe Shawn Johnson.

I think the real issue with Russian gymnastics fans is they seem to think because their dancing is beautiful to watch it somehow means their skill level doesn’t have to live up to their artistry. If we are being fair Simone is closer to an artist than any of them are to being a power gymnast. She is more balanced then any so called power gymnast we have had over the years.


35 Responses to “I know your lying because your lips are moving”

  1. sanitynmotion Says:

    I wish I had time to read the article. I skimmed parts – seems like the basic gist is “Simone is great/talented/won gold…but she has no artistic form so gymnastics is going downhill and it sucks that someone with little grace/artistry wins it all even though she can do skills nobody else can.”

    I feel like if Simone were from a different country, she’d be lauded as a hero for beating the US. Nobody would dare say anything about form and artistry. Just an opinion.

    • gymtruthteller Says:

      I don’t think the article is the biggest issue with people. It’s the comments and yes you are so right. If Simone was Russian they would probably call her artistic.

      Artistry only matter’s to the Russians when it’s an American they are competing against. It doesn’t matter what Country the gymnast represents ( think Nastia) and it certainly didn’t matter to them when Gutsu beat Miller with shady form and power.

      • tulip Says:

        Shady form, power and the ugliest possible hair. Ever. Shudder thinking about it.

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        I liked Gutsu, loved ehr tricks but no way in hell she deserved that AA and why it has never been investigated boggles the mind.

      • gymbot Says:

        Many, but not all of the comments are so negative. In fact, I think Queen Elizabeth appreciates the artistry that Simone has in her form, amplitude and expression of her work. It’s just that she prefers a very particular brand of gymnastics that cannot flourish under the current code. Others commenting are typical stans and I do not always understand all of their comments.

        Regarding the article specifically, I thought it was was in general just to highlight Simone’s success and so long as she’s healthy, everyone knows she is the favorite for the Olympics. That said anything can happen.

        The odd parts in the article for me were that Carlotta Ferlito’s “whisper” to her friend was actually a rant to Italian media that got picked up on youtube. Also, Biles has one of the best beams – both in difficulty – but rhythm of movement, so Zamo’s comments that she wont be able to compete against other types of gymnasts is nonsense.

        AA’s comments on Douglas earning 90 million is definitely hyperbole right? But there is truth in what he says, American gymnasts can benefit from a free education or turning pro. I thought it was positive that they highlight Biles is going for her education at a good school.

  2. JAS4 Says:

    I enjoy watching Simone on floor and while she may not be a ballerina her routine is suited nicely to her dance abilities. Jordyn’s 2011-2012 floor routine would not be considered artistic by most but I enjoyed watching it just as much if not more than routines from Komova and Afan who are considered artistic by many.

    • gymbot Says:

      Or you can like all three of those routines. And more!

    • katecoursey Says:

      Jordyn’s 2011-2012 floor routine is one of my favorite floor routines done by a power gymnast. It suited her style, had interesting choreography, lots of varied and interesting movements, etc. Depending on your definition of artistic, I would say that routine could’ve been considered artistic. Simone’s floor isn’t my favorite choreography-wise, but that mostly comes down to personal taste and even if I don’t love the choreography she definitely sells it.

      Komovo could dance well, but I was never super impressed with her techno swan lake music and choreo.

  3. Cupquaked Says:

    I think people forget that artistry is not just ballet-type movements. It’s a subjective idea, which was the intention, and artistry can mean different things to different people. Simone is artistic, just not in the conventional way. I like her floor, it’s fresh and exciting and while she may not be the best dancer out there, she sells a routine and smiles almost the entire time. She’s one of the few gymnasts who looks like she’s actually enjoying herself in competition and that is always interesting to watch. I also think Claudia Fragapane’s floor is artistic in the non-conventional way. She has some unusual dance elements and it’s sassy. Granted, she doesn’t have the best form but she can break dance and sticks her passes on a good day. I don’t have a preference for one type of artistry over the other but it’s nice to see these girls breaking out of the classical “mold” for FX.

    • gymtruthteller Says:

      To me artistry has to be artistic and that cannot be a routine like Simone’s. I think she has great presentation and she sells that routine for all its worth buy I can’t call it artistic. Artistry has the word artist in it for a reason. Dance ability is a must. Fluid movement. I guess artistry is subjective but I think too many people confuse artistry with presentation and it screws up the meaning of the word artistry.

  4. gymbot Says:

    Regarding Lisa Mason, she has up to a 5.2 difficult level if she gets everything. If she gets a D dismount, a 5.5 wouldn’t be so bad. The top 30 AA gymnasts in quals had an average just under 5.7, so she’d be close. I love her work on the ground at the end of the routine.

    Although I like her floor a lot, I think the up and coming British seniors are too strong on that event – and many British gymnasts have DTYs now – so vault, her other strong apparatus wont help her make a team. Maybe individual competitions, like Euros coming up.

    It is absolutely amazing that she returned after so long and had kids, right?

  5. Exgymgurl Says:

    if simone were russian it would be a different story. the russians didnt like nadia either. FIG will change the code in 2016 after worlds to make it more even. Or try to. Shannon is right. All routines in USA gymnastics are composed to the COP. Great find on that interview BTW. Great story about giving bela pie in the face.

    • Guest Says:

      Russians usually like to claim they are spokesperson of artistry. Just like the someone Russian try to shade Shawn as powerful gymnast and advertise herself graceful and artistic over TV.

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        Lol I wonder who that co old be. Shawn gets a hard time for her lack of artistry but it’s not like she was Carly Patterson bad who walked through routines literally instead of dancing.

  6. Kirsten Says:

    Off topic- but Ashton Locklear had shoulder surgery. Do today’s bar requirements kill shoulders(ohashi, Jinnan, etc)?

    • gymtruthteller Says:

      Not so much the codes fault as it is the code whoring coaches faults who want to shoulder kill the bonus points instead of throw real releases to minimize the deductions and chances of falling.

  7. Lithi Says:

    About Simone: there have been gymnasts who were not the most artistic in terms of balletic but were able to work with what they had and even become fantastic–see Elena Shushunova and Camelia Voinea. Unfortunately, with gymnastics so subjective we will never have a true consensus on what is considered artistic.

    On another note: scuttlebutt from a Russian speaker at WWGym says some of the Russian media is paying attention to Miss Nastia’s DWTS stint. Hmm…

    • H Says:

      Sorry for my english – brace yourself:-)

      Personally I see Elena Shushunova as a very artistic gymnast.
      (With a bit more artistic choreography I would have seen Shawn as well as an artistic gymnast).
      Gymnasts that have a “balletic/artistic” presentation which for me means
      1. being fully present in their movement/body,
      2. body control – truly fine tuned muscle control.
      3. And then you top it off with an artistic chor (and well executed presentation over all).
      Example: Komova have never imo got point 3. completely right.
      Not good chor and not either interesting or charismatic presentation.
      Nadia L. had in some part of her routine a more floaty segment with more (can easily be confused with true artistic gymnast) then Shawn, and many people are fooled by that alone and/or her (Nadias) body figure.
      Nadia did cover much in regards 1., 2. and 3. but never fully.
      Shawn did cover imo completely point 1 and 2.

      • H Says:

        Simone is very good with point 1. and 2. but due to the way she uses her hands and to some extend her (I forgot to truly point my feet sometimes) and a bit fragmented chor (which also lack a truly thought through overall idea) she is not imo a fully completely artistic gymnast, yet. But imo it has nothing to do with her body frame or being powerful.

      • Lithi Says:

        That makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, I have been sucked into the quagmire of “NOT LIKE BALLET DANCERS NOT ARTISTIC HUR HUR!” Which makes no sense because I adore Shushunova; she’s my favorite gymnast. It irks the crap out of me when the folks say she didn’t deserve the ’88 Olympic gold because she wasn’t as “artistic” as her rivals. Sure, she wasn’t like Omelianchik/Silivas/Dobre/etc, but she took what she had and worked it and I respect her greatly for it.

        Sorry for the rant in that last part.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        I kind of see artistry in gymnastics as how good a gymnast is with rhythm. Do their routines have “flow.” So for instance even though the balance beam is not to music – does it flow? Is it well-paced? Someone mentioned Jordyn Wieber’s floor – perfect example. No, she was not a ballet dancer, but her floor routine was artistic in that way. I guess another way to describe it is “feel” of rhythm and flow – kind of like in figure skating, does the skater show that she “feels” the music and can they make you feel it too. Best example of course Michelle Kwan.

        As an aside, I don’t know who’s gold medal “loss” made me more angry – Shannon’s in 1992 or Kwan’s in 1998. I think it might have been Kwan to be honest. Damn Tara.

        As a second layer to artistry, does the gymnast have straight legs in her leaps/jumps, do the splits go to 180, is her body straight when it needs to be and piked when it needs to be – basically, the “lines” they talk about. You don’t necessarily have to be built like a skeleton for this, or have exceptionally long legs. It helps, but this is where the “elegance” portion of artistry fits the bill, I think. Also – landings. Are they soft or can everyone in the building hear them? Landings on beam especially – Aly Raisman has a tendency to “pound pound pound” and it kills me. This was where Carly Patterson did well though. Shawn was kinda bumpy too here.

        Thirdly, and this ties to both my points above, overall movement (tying to flow). To me, artistry is not jerky/chaotic movement. My eyes shouldn’t be “distracted.”

        I still think to this day the “perfect” gymnast is a Shannon Miller type because she was able to tie both flow and artistry to the acrobatics. I see potential in Maroney to do this as well, and even ASac had some of it. Nastia had the most artistry (I felt like) on beam – especially when she was younger. Her other events though had major issues – where my eyes were distracted, to say the least.

        Some of the artistry is forsaken anymore for the acrobatic skills – for instance I think the need for “combo” elements on beam takes away a lot from the apparatus (a lot of girls attempting combos that they can’t make so broken form and jerky movements prevail). Also, the damn stuck landings on floor. The layout landings were so much prettier in my opinion, even though they were “saves” a lot of the time – I just thought it “looked” nicer. Now it’s back to pound, pound, pound again. And that can’t be good on their bodies either.

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        Now see the way you described floor to me (artistry is not jerky/chaotic movement) can describe what some people say is artistic but I don’t agree. It brings to mind Tabitha Yim and Claudia Fragapane and Nastia yet some people call them artstic.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        I don’t think Nastia had artistry on floor. Her broken wrists, cowboy tumbling – all those were the “eye distractions” I was talking about. Certain poses Nastia did were pretty to look at (the one we all know – the one on the trophy of Nastia cup) yet I think we can all agree she wasn’t fluid in her movements. Why people call her “artistic” is largely her figure – she had the long skinny legs/ballet dancer body. She was able to hide many of her flaws with that alone.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        I don’t know of Tabitha Yim and Clauda Frkdkldfldjfdfk either…I mean, I’ve heard of Tabitha but have never watched her routines. Before the time I was “into” gymnastics.

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        LOL about Fragapane’s last name. I had to look up the spelling:)

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        So I just watched Tabitha Yim’s 2002 American Cup floor performance on YouTube. I liked the intro, but she definitely had what I would describe as “jerky movements” and her hands were super distracting to me. I feel like the music was smooth and flowing, but her choreo was actually quite jerky. If the music is jerky, that’s one thing. That’s where I was making the point about rhythm and feeling the music. Tabitha’s movements to me were actually “off” of the rhythm of the music and felt forced/contrived. I believe people would say her performance was artistic though because it was something different than normal. I dunno. That’s where we get to the point where artistry is subjective.

        Her landings were kind of a mess too – was able to cover some via the layout though.

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        This is why I like Simone. I guess this was a quote she made after the American cup.

        Biles was still fuming afterward about her wobble on the balance beam. She also said she tweaked her back on the routine and had to fight through to the end. If it had happened in practice, she said she would have hopped off the 4-inch-wide apparatus of occasional torture.”

        “I would’ve been so dramatic,” Biles said.

  8. kendell Says:

    Did anyone watch DWTS? I am not a fan of the show, but I was curious to see Nastia…for some reason I don’t like the way they brought up Shawn. Maybe she is just not a bubbly person, but Nastia doesn’t seem to be the nicest. Anyone else get that feeling?

    • Guest Says:

      Someone revealed that Derek should have another partner this season but she pulled out. That’s why there was coverage that Derek won’t return before. Then the Russian got a call in last minute to substitute the vacancy. In the show she threw a shade to Shawn as just a powerful gymnast and promoted herself graceful and artistic. I just wonder how she gets the votes with such a non-respectful attitude.

    • Akshay Says:

      “Nastia doesn’t seem to be the nicest.”

      Oh boy. You’ve come to the right place. 😉

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        She probably in reality falls somewhere between my opinion of her and the A-Typical spoiled rich girl we all knew in College.

      • Guest Says:

        I would love to see Shawn gives Derek a call and talks about the All-Star season when Derek is practicing and then how the reaction of the Russian will be.

  9. H Says:

    I agree in regards – When you have truly fine tuned muscle control and are present in your body you have the abillity to be not only rhythmic, or show flow, but you can express much more subtle dynamic.
    One good example for that is Omelianchik beam routine from European championship EF in 1985.


    And a brilliant example for artistry in general – conveying a message, beyond good chor, rhythmic etc is Shushunova (since you mentioned her @Lithi ) performance in Olympic TF 1988.
    Youtube search “Elena Shushunova FX 1988 Seoul Team Free”

  10. Jason Says:

    Hello! We recently got linked to your blog after posting a Japanese Gymnastic Toy video on Facebook and our new followers have expressed this would make a great gift to their gymnast friends. Maybe you would like to share with your readers? 🙂

  11. Browninja Says:

    Floor is a dance with acrobatic movements. Then the gymnasts must be able to dance. Needs to do ballet? No, but they need fluidity and grace in movement, and today the American girls only know how to repeat movements. Compare Dominique Dawes (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Dominique+Dawes+1991) and Miller against Biles and Skinner. The difference is enormous.
    Please do not see this as the Cold War or hatred against Americans. It’s just the beauty of the sport, and this beauty is fading.

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