Moving on

I know I have not been here much lately but in the tradition that is the 4th of July and what it means I have been allowing the Nastia love fest to exist. It’s now over. Now it’s time to move on. For me anyway so this is just filler until I decide I feel like writing again. ( A Bross blog, A Sloan vault and a Sacramone blog on its way)

‘Some stuff I have read that I liked……….

Romania has new vaults. They are gunning for at least silver.

Aly has been all over the Boston news since she made the team. The channel the Olympics is on even had a video of her arriving home.

After Trials

At her gym You can see the conflicted sadness in poor Talia C’s eyes knowing her dream is not coming true but she was the first to hug Ally on her way through the door.

An article about Kyla that mostly focuses on her Family.

The conceited cocky vibe has been used to describe Mckayla Maroney but after watching this video below where she tears up and almost cries while talking about her and Kyla making the team together is pretty endearing. Does Mckayla have a big head, oh yes but I am sure all these girls do. That is what helps them get this far in the sport but Mckayla showed a different side here.


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78 Responses to “Moving on”

  1. JAS4 Says:

    They seem like pretty nice girls for the most part but they have all known for months that they were going to make the team so even though they are thankful and all I imagine it could have gone to their heads a little knowing for that long they would be on the team

    • gymtruthteller Says:

      I think we all deserve credit for calling this team months

    • sanitynmotion Says:

      They probably “knew” they would be on it barring any injuries or “bomb” performances. I’m sure Marta let them know that too based on Aly’s interview. But then I have to wonder about the Nastia thing…someone was being gunned for (think I’m pretty sure it was Kyla). Yet Kyla seems so ignorant like she has no clue what was going on…

  2. sanitynmotion Says:

    I wonder if McKayla was scared at all she wouldn’t make it given Price…

    • JAS4 Says:

      Maybe a little but I doubt it rumor has it that the USOC told Marta that they wanted McKayla on the team because if all goes well she is pretty much guaranteed to medal on Vault

  3. The GYM JUICE Says:

    Sorry but who is Talia?

    • Gymbee Says:

      Ditto, never heard about her. Is she another Breatyans senior?

    • Lyra Gill (@lygill) Says:

      Talia’s a senior elite who trains at Brestyan’s but competes for Canada. She had to back out of the Canadian selection camp for London 2012 recently due to back problems. She competed at PanAms last year.

      • gymglitterxx Says:

        Wow, smart of Mihai to have his gymnasts competing for different countries! This way they all have better odds of making the Olys. I wonder if maybe Alicia would have made it if she competed for Canada? LOL

      • terrigymfan Says:

        Talia is probably a Canadian citizen. Don’t you have to be a citizen of a country to be on its Olympic team?

  4. Catherine Says:

    I would call Mckayla confident, but not overly so. Most of her interviews stress how much she loves her coaches and how grateful she is for the sacrifices her family have made for her and how her mother drove for hours to get her to the gym etc.

    Very interesting about Romania! I sometimes forget about them with the emphasis on USA vs Russia but they clearly have the potential to beat Russia now and capitalise on any USA mistakes. Great floor, awesome beam, strong vaulting…Sandra’s is messy as hell, hope she fixes that up. Larisa’s is pretty impressive, not amazing but it looks safe and clean. I hope videos emerge from this meet they’re having of proper angles on those vaults.

    It would be very interesting if Sandra turned up at the vault EF with a Cheng and Amanar. Possibly not powerful enough for the amanar, but she has a DTY so who knows, could fling an amanar. Brings her SV above Maroney. Maroney will of course beat her but it shakes up the chances for Chuso and everyone else.

    • Lyra Gill (@lygill) Says:

      If Izbasa does indeed show up with a Cheng, she’ll get silver for sure. If she turns up with an Amanar, she could possibly beat Maroney but I don’t think that’s likely unless she really cleans up her execution.

    • cokezero Says:

      Basic question I know but can someone describe exactly what the Cheng is? Thanks

    • sanitynmotion Says:

      Definitely don’t count the Romanians out. Ponor and Izbasa are rocks and they are getting better and better…and Iordache will definitely give everyone a run for their money in the AA competition. I think it’s safe to say the top three will be Russia, US, and Romania – it just remains to be seen which order they will fall.

  5. mimi Says:

    why do people say mckayla is cocky? she might not smile during competitions (she’s focusing to perform!) nor jump and down in disbelief when she does well (she executes her routines perfectly because she says it’s like autopilot after all her trainign) but she is as sweet as pie in interviews, has confidence in her abilities and credits her teammates and coaches without fail. she’s great friends with the other gymnasts so clearly gets along well with them. because she’s not as smiley and vivacious as gabby she’s stuck up?

    • terrigymfan Says:

      I don’t think Mckayla is conceited or arrogant. In my opinion she oozes personality and is as cute as can be but that doesn’t make her arrogant. I love her interviews because she seems so excited and doesn’t just spew out a bunch of cliches. Maybe some think she is cocky because she mentions her gold medal on vault at Worlds and says she thinks she should win another gold at the Olympics, but I think it would be downright silly not to say that. Plus she openly admits she is on the team mainly for her vaulting skills and not other skills. I have never heard her say anything mean about another gymnast or anybody else for that matter. She does carry herself in a regal way when she walks and maybe some think that’s a sign of arrogance. I just call it good posture.

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        IMO she is cocky because she gives off the vibe she thinks she is better then everyone else. Watch her interviews. The nose is always up in the air and the attitude is always, I am awesome. Being cocky isn’t really bad IMO. Now if she treated other people badly because she was the best I might think differently of her but she seems to get along with Aly and Jordyn easily.

  6. Chris Says:

    is it just me or does the same video keep playing for each of those links? I don’t see the video where Talia hugs Aly?

  7. Exgymgurl Says:

    I’m worried about Pitic……. I need her on the Romanian team with upgraded bars

  8. Luke Says:

    Predictions after trials for the team final? Can anyone beat the US?

    • sanitynmotion Says:

      Totally. I think it will be a race and will depend on who messes up the least. The US has done it before but Olympics is significantly more pressure than Worlds…

      Can’t lie I kind of worry about Gabby…and even Kyla.

      • sarah Says:

        Beam the most common to mess up on,
        As long as they dont put douglas on beam they should be fine,
        Aly and Jordyn, i cant see them falling off, worst for them would be major balance checks. Kyla should be fine, but yeah, slightly nervous there.
        Vault, i can see whoever doing it taking a big step after their amanar.
        Bars, with the exseption of day 1 O.T its the one thing gabby doesn’t mess up on.
        Floor, probs go out of bounds, but i havn’t seen any of them fall, (other then McKayla at visa warm up, when she got a concussion and nasal fracture)

  9. rhodanyc Says:

    Maroney tears up a bit here too when talking about the same thing:

    Very sweet how moved she is by the situation.

  10. Exgymgurl Says:

    I think if the us screws up like they did in 2008 it’s possible. I think Marta did not want the demons of 08 showing up on this team. I think it’s very possible that if they all peak properly and are used to T V holds they will be fine. I think this team has been raised differently and better from the crop of athletes in 04 and 08. I think EBee and Finnegan were raised for 2016 and will be leading the team in 2016 if they can stay uninjured. I don’t know what becomes of Bross… No NCAA… Ohashi if she is injury free will be a prime candidate. Maybe Hundley and Priessman… If they go back to 6 gymnasts that would be even better. They also need to go back to compularies to get away from these one trick ponies….. IMHO… Athletes that thrive in compulsories know basics and fundamentals so much better than most of the athletes today.

    • sanitynmotion Says:

      TOTALLY agree about compulsories! Also separates the “trick” gymnasts from the real artists. No offense, but Aly Raisman would completely stand out from, say – Mustafina…and not in a good way.

      • Exgymgurl Says:

        That’s my point and have compulsories out of a 10 sv overall and then optionals graded the way they are now if everything was basically out of 27 (17 max score optional, 10 max score compulsory,) it would,still separate. People like Alicia with no splits and no back walkover would have issues… The sport has changed not for the better whereas Kyla would have amazing compulsories…. Jordyn too because she can be clean. This would also help Romania Russia and china and make overall the competition more focused on execution and less on d scores

  11. JAS4 Says:

    GB team announced

  12. Lauren Says:

    Is it just me or does that look more like Sarah Finnegan in the photo attached to the Kyla Ross article?

  13. gymteach Says:

    the writer on Kyla’s article used a picture of Finnegan?

  14. Surfergirl Says:

    @sanitymotion Calling Kyla ignorant is pretty harsh, don’t you think. I think she is just young and innocent. I recall an article where her dad says she is a bit naive. Also don’t you think she probably was pretty confident she would make the team? She always scored on top if you took beams and bars together.

    • sanitynmotion Says:

      I didn’t mean “ignorant” in a harsh way – I couldn’t think of a better word. Basically whatever word means “wasn’t even considering that her spot was potentially in jeopardy.” Kyla was the one girl I was rooting for out of all of them because I just had this feeling Marta was eyeing her spot of all of them to replace with Nastia, and GTT basically verified it. I really wish Kyla would have gone for a more upgraded floor routine for that reason, too – and I’ve been saying it time and time again on this blog.

      Anyway, no way did I mean to offend, Kyla’s from my neck of the woods and I am super happy Marta placed her on this team. It just didn’t appear to me that she (or her coaches for that matter) had any idea that her spot was really the “one” spot that was not a “shoo-in.”

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        I was never told whose spot was in jeopardy but Kyla would be my guess.

      • JAS4 Says:

        I think after Nationals though McKayla’s spot may have been the one in trouble especially with Marta insisting that Kyla get her Amanar back but I think once it was clear McKayla was fine it was probably Kyla’s spot in trouble again although I wonder of after Nastia bombed day one of trials though if they were gunning for an alternate spot for her or if they were still aiming to put her on the team if she got through her bars but I noticed on twitter Rebecca doesn’t seem very sad if anything she seems relieved I’m sure she is disappointed but if she had knowledge of the whole Nastia scandal and with all the pressure put on her after Nastia bombed her routine she probably was relieved that it’s over she seems like a nice girls I’m sure she didn’t want to go along with the Nastia mess but maybe she or her Dad will right a tell all

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        Did she tank bars after Nastia fell because she didn’t want the spot? Interesting theory. I agree, I don’t think she seems like she cares at all but she could just be hiding her true feelings. She will regret this eventually. Ashley Postell regretted it.

      • JAS4 Says:

        I don’t know if she would purposely bomb bars but it could be that she felt so much pressure and so guilty about knowing what was going on that she just couldn’t handle it and cracked under the pressure and was upset at first but maybe now is relieved to not have to deal with that pressure

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        I meant you verified Nastia was gunning for one of their spots. It had to have been Kyla only because she’s going mostly for her bars/beam…and that’s what Nastia was going for too.

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        The word you are looking for is oblivious.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        Ah, perfect. Oblivious. I looked up the definition of ignorant and it basically means “uninformed”as well – only I guess its use is generally implied with the term “stupid.” I didn’t mean it in a harsh way.

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        I understood what you meant. In a way you are right. She had no clue. She thought she was going because honestly she deserved to go. The fact of the matter is that Kyla seemed pretty clueless to how this all worked. IMO, She thought all she needed to do was hit because she has the start values (minus floor) and consistency to make this Olympic team.

        I have no proof but I really do think Marta made her downgrade the vault to help Gabby in case she fell because she wants Gabby to get that second AA spot. She could care less about Kyla’s safety and even though she wanted Nastia on this team she had to know she would not be able to hit that routine when she had no hit it once her entire comeback. Marta might be an ignorant bitch (see, that was a perfect way to use the word ignorant:) but she isn’t ab ass.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        What happened with Ashley Postell?

        It would be interesting to know what “Nastia” information Bross was privy to. I have to think though if she did know the Nastia thing and all…she probably would have said something to her parents or to her other gymnast friends and a part of it had to have gone out. But maybe they’re better at keeping secrets than we give them credit for. Maybe she’ll say something after the Olympics are over. It was odd how she completely just fell apart on bars though – like I said before, I’ve never seen her fall apart like that on bars. I’ve seen her fall ONCE but not on her opening series like that…it was just weird.

        I can’t help but think she would be a little disappointed overall; the Olympics had to have been her dream too growing up and working as hard as she has. She was a lock through 2010 – then she just kept injuring herself to the point where she couldn’t do the AA (I still think lack of floor was her downfall – after I heard that I basically wrote her off).

        Maybe she’ll continue with her career and go for 2016, only this time she’ll know how to train better. I did think it kind of funny though after her bars/beam series she was just “hanging out” like normal with Aly, McKayla, and Jordyn. She was in on that whispered conversation they were having at the end (I remember because I was thinking to myself, “hey, I guess it’s a good thing Bross isn’t off in a corner crying her eyes out…”)

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        IMO Bross was literally clueless to everything.

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        Ashley Postell fell off bars and missed the Olympic Trials by one spot. Someone got injured and they offered her the spot at Trials and she turned them down. She was fed up with the whole process at that point. She tried a comeback a few years later but it did not last.

        She should have gone to Trials. She would have been a huge help to team USA but she was just so emotionally and physically done at that point she didn’t even want to try. She was fed up with the whole system in place.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        Was Bross clueless, ignorant, or oblivious? LOL.

        Was Postell a Marta victim? I read she was sick for 2003 worlds and that’s why Chellsie was put in her place…

        She probably would have been passed over for Mohini and Hatch anyways, right? That was such a mistake. I felt like McCool’s win over Patterson at Trials messed up Marta’s selection process, and then her decision to put in two vault specialists really messed up the team.

    • gymglitterxx Says:

      Can someone please tell me the Ashley Postell story?

  15. nero Says:

    This needs a translation, stat! And apparently the Russian girls were scoping the competition and watching the trials through a stream

    • sanitynmotion Says:

      Does Russia have an Olympic Trials process like the US? Or in most countries are they just “selected?”

      • gymtruthteller Says:

        They help base it on a competition but they decide who they want

    • Catherine Says:

      Lol interesting, the illegal stream froze on Nastia and Jordyn’s bars and Aly’s they were raging too!

      • Gymbee Says:

        When in the video are they watching trials? I tried to scroll through it but no lucksies 🙂

      • Catherine Says:

        I don’t know, just going by what nero said. Would be interested in seeing that too! At 3:17, is that an amanar in the background??

      • nero Says:

        It’s not in the video, just a rumor that they watched. I guess the Russian coaches watched nationals, I’m sure they would watch trials also

  16. Exgymgurl Says:

    Remember trials were not on gymnova equipment which is stupid because the gymnova bars are very different than the other ones… More springy.. I think visas were on gymnova notice the Chinese have only been training gymnova….

    • Catherine Says:

      Rick seems to think they were, but labelled AAI? Not sure.

      • nero Says:

        Sharp, Bridget’s coach, said the bars were gymnova because they have a different bounce to them and they wanted the girls to get used to them

        My guess would be all of the equipment was gymnova and they just changed the colors and labeled it AAI

      • Exgymgurl Says:

        They were labeled gymnova at visas wierd, I remember sharp saying that about visas

      • Dee Says:

        The Trials equipment was Gymnova, and the Ranch has gymnova floor and bars now. I’m pretty sure they upgraded their vault and a beam or two is Gymnova, as well. It’s been like that for a while.

  17. Catherine Says:

    It IS an amanar! intlgymnast have picked up on it. Proud of myself for suspecting it ha. Komova has an amanar! It was thought she would bring one, but proof is good. It looks pretty high with very good form in the air, good for her. That video is a month old so it will have improved by now. Makes AA even more exciting!

    • sanitynmotion Says:

      Komova had an amanar before…she just didn’t do it at worlds because of her ankle injury and Russia didn’t want to risk their chances a year before the Olympics – especially after what happened to Mustafina. Her amanar when she was a junior was actually very pretty to look at. Will make things interesting indeed – if she did her amanar in Tokyo (and landed it) she would have been the World champ.

      • Catherine Says:

        I know yeah, but when she didn’t have it for Euros it seemed a bit too late, but obviously not. Yes the form on this one looks pretty good too. Does Jinnan have one? I have heard only Quishang does. I can see Musty flinging one too.

      • nero Says:

        I’m extremely skeptical about all these girls who suddenly have amanars. The first or second time they’ll be competing them will be AT the Olympics, that’s cutting it really close if you ask me.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        The Russians are downplaying their vaults up until the Olympics – no sense to risk injury before then. It was at the Euros before this most recent one that Mustafina tore her ACL on that vault and it wasn’t even needed for her to win, so her injury was really for nothing and could have easily been avoided.

        They’ll play their hand at the Olympics. Wouldn’t surprise me if the Russians have at least two amanars up their sleeves, plus their bars…so funny, everyone is saying the gold medal is for Team USA to lose, but I’ve been thinking for at least a year now that Russia could very well win it all. It’ll be close. Now the rumor is that Komova will have the highest combined D value of all the potential all arounders, including the highest beam D value.

        I don’t mind the general “E4Y” public having the mindset that Team USA has it in the bag though because if Russia does end up grabbing that team gold, I’m hoping everyone will (finally) point their fingers at Marta and demand that she be replaced. This is her third time that US has been favored to win the Olympic gold team medal and if she doesn’t get it with THIS squad (probably the best we’ve seen since ’96, as long as they stay healthy), then I don’t see the point of keeping her on as team coordinator.

      • Catherine Says:

        I think if Russia hit everything it would be theirs to lose. But floor is weak in comparison to Romania and US and Musty will be hit with deductions there. If she is one of their amanars, which is very likely, expect it to be slammed score-wise. Beam will be nerve- wracking, though high scoring if they all stay on. Romania and US on the other hand are much more likely to not count a fall. Komova makes her AA chances higher, as does Iordache. But team-wise, if USA hit everything then they are very very likely to win. We could do with some last-minute upgrades from Gabby on bars though not if they’re going to destabilise her.

      • nero Says:

        Were there a lot of people who thought the USA was favored in Beijing? I mean, the writing was on the wall that China would win, Alicia fall or not. I would have been shocked if the USA won in Beijing

        The US will be up by a lot after vault, no matter how many amanars Russia has. Russia will eat away at that after bars, but not by much because of Gabby and Kyla. Romania will most likely win beam, I think USA and Russia will have pretty even scores on beam.

        USA will be fine on floor. Russia could be OK on floor, or it could be a disaster. Komova lands that double pike soooo bent in half that if they don’t take .5 off then IDK what the judges are thinking

        I’m not sure ‘showing their hand’ at the Olympics is smart. These girls should be completely comfortable in their routines, not testing new skills during Olympic prelims. But hey, what do I know right?

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        When Mustafina did her amanar in 2010 she scored pretty well despite her crap form (even in event finals, her first amanar vault scored higher than ASac’s rudi vault despite the helicopter legs; it was her second vault that was landed too low and why she got silver). I get the sense judges don’t deduct as fairly from Russian gymnasts because of their legacy for artistry and what not. It’s not fair, but this sport is hardly fair.

        They do have the reigning world floor champ too who will undoubtedly be one of the 3 up 3 count. Mustafina doesn’t necessarily have to be used for floor, but her beam is pretty solid and so are her bars. If she can do an amanar I’m sure they’ll throw it in there because it “is” 0.7 of a point more in D score – can’t blame the coaches for playing the code.

        Komova has been rather iffy on beam, but we can say the same for Jordyn lately (she’ll change it so that’s good) and I really hope Kyla does well enough day 1 to make event finals. The problem with Kyla’s routine is that if she misses even one connection her score gets somewhat pulverized because her D score drops from 6.0 to in the 5’s…

        I kind of have a feeling that barring any mistakes, this competition will come down to floor. This might not be good for USA only because Gabby’s floor I can see be pulverized by judges (just for the sake of her artistry and choreo) and McKayla’s floor is not what I’d call consistent. If Romania is the leading team going into floor, I would say that they would win it.

        It’ll be a good competition either way. I just have to kind of laugh at everyone who thinks that this is “in the bag” for Team USA.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        I got the sense that US was favored in Beijing because they were the reigning world champs…but it was obviously going to go to the host country if they didn’t make any mistakes. I started following gymnastics right before the 08 Olympics so I’m not entirely qualified to answer that but I do remember idiot Tim saying something about how the Americans were favored to win being the reigning world champs and having Nastia, Shawn, and Chellsie on that team. Honestly I think USA could have given the Chinese a better run for their money had not 2 of the 6 girls been injured, and of course had not ASac freaked.

        Gabby and Kyla still have D scores in the mid-6.0 range on bars (think it’s a 6.4); Russia has two girls in the high-6/low-7 range and their third girl I think is the same as a Gabby or a Kyla. I kept hearing how Gabby was “capable” of a 6.9 D score so hopefully she can get that up before the Olympics. If not, I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia is ahead of USA after the second rotation. After that who knows…beam is such a crap shoot.

    • gymglitterxx Says:

      Sanity, McKayla will not be used for floor so it doesn’t matter!

      • catherine Says:

        She will be used in prelims, you may be sure she won’t leave camp with an inconsistent third pass, most likely double tuck to leap. Her floor with that fixed has serious potential to outscore gabby, who has no artistry and god awful choreo. If she beats gabby then she will be in tf, mckayla has great dance and gabby will not get 9.5 execution in a fit. We’ll see, a lot riding on that damned third pass. It won’t be Kyla in prelims, that floor will screw her out of qualifying to the aa, so low.

      • terrigymfan Says:

        Catherine, I can’t see Kyla having a chance at aa anyway because she won’t do vault in prelims. The other four are better on vault or am I missing something? So that would mean Marta has no reason in deciding between Kyla and Mckayla for floor for prelims other than who she thinks will score the highest. I think it will depend on how well Mckayla performs during camp next week. If she is still as incomsistent as she was in trials I could see Marta going with Kyla. Either way I predict she goes with Jordan, Aly, and Gabby in TF on floor.

      • Catherine Says:

        Yeah I always forget about Kyla’s vault. A pity her amanar is unsafe as it is quite neat. I predict McKayla leaving camp with an altered third pass, double tuck to leap probably loses nothing. It is too inconsistent at this stage to leave it as it is, though her concussion obviously hindered her prep for trials. Marta will want the extra 0.5 McKayla’s floor brings. TF I still see McKayla going up with the fixed third pass over Gabby but ONLY if it outscores Gabby in prelims. I think it has the potential to.

      • terrigymfan Says:

        Yes I agree Mikayla’s floor has a lot of potential but it is one of the big unknowns at the moment. I do keep forgetting about her injury so her performance on floor at trials was deceptive. It’s really going to be interesting the next three weeks.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        I think there’s a very good chance McKayla will be used for floor. She has better dance and choreo than Gabby and is probably going to receive higher marks than Gabby’s floor (which I’m surprised Marta didn’t ask Chow to change that floor routine over a year ago). Anyways, someone brought it up that Gabby’s Tokyo FX routine scored 13.88 and she didn’t go out of bounds and she didn’t have any major mishaps on landings. Her D score has gone up by 4 tenths since then but even so, let’s say her highest scoring potential is 14.4 – that won’t necessarily be enough. So I think Marta will use both Gabby and McKayla during quals to see how each one scores, and depending on that we’ll see who she uses for team finals. I still have a feeling it will be McKayla.

    • Anonymous Says:

      I believe Gabby has 6.5 on bars. Kyla has 6.4 and Jordyn is now at 6.4. Russia has two 7.0s and one 6.5. so the difference is 1.2 points. If Russia has 1 amanar which I think is likely all they will have the US has 1.4 advantage on vault. If Russia gets a 2nd amanar their chances for gold increase dramatically.

      • sanitynmotion Says:

        Yup. Which is why I am pretty sure Russia will have at least two amanars by the time of team finals. That’s why this will very much come down to floor (a low scoring event). If US uses Gabby she won’t score near 15 internationally with her floor routine.
        This is why I kind of wonder if Marta screwed herself by taking Maroney over say Finnegan.
        I mean I agree with the team as it is, but this strategy stuff is interesting.

      • Catherine Says:

        Russia are likely to get Musty to do the second amanar- she is shown in the video doing a timer for one. I pray for her knees. If she DOES have it, which is likely, it will be really sloppy as usual, but still a bonus for them over a DTY. It certainly will eat into USA’s TF chances. Let’s nor forget Russia aren’t the best on floor tumbling wise. Grishina and Afan have beautiful floors, but they’re not spectacularly high in SV which is what they need. If all 3 stay on beam in TF I think I won’t be the only one amazed.

        As is stands, it will be a fierce battle but since Romania have crap bars and Russia are likely to headcase a bit, I think USA will get the gold, If Russia hit 12 for 12, they do. If both headcase, Romania will sweep in and take it.

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